Saturday, January 18, 2014

Video: "Christian Debate?" About the Morality of Nominal Sophistry

(Commentary by Roger Erickson)



Data is meaningless without context. So before viewing the video below, please consider it's context, and the parameters which allow us to assess REAL vs only nominal success in a given context.

Many have heard of the origins of the phenomenon named "sophistry" by the Greeks.

2300 years ago, Greeks noting and naming the structure of language, immediately also noticed the fluidity and gradual change of what they named grammar, vocabulary, semantics and sophistry.

Semantic plasticity - the function of letting the same word imply different things in different contexts or usage patterns - allows a relatively small number of words to describe an unlimited set of concepts, when specified by context, word order, or many other linguistic tools (prefixes, suffixes, and noun/verb/other variants).

Sophistry was one, early form of humor noted, used and abused by various people. It use is described in the dialogues of Socrates.
"Is that YOUR dog?" 'Yes.'
"And is YOUR dog a mother?" 'Yes, she has puppies.'
"Then that dog is YOUR mother!" :)
    Socrates noted two general classes of responses.
      Intelligent people: '[Greek equivalent of "bug off."]'
      Naive youth: "Oh my gosh. My dog is my mother!" Fear. Panic.
This brings up a moral dilemma. Or does it?

Maybe not in the same way for all people. The early sophists were soon reviled, for their irritating habit of practicing and refining ancient methods for confusing, dividing and 'conquering' naive targets, so that they could be more easily tricking into being the object of ridicule. Worse, sophists were soon followed by others who refined their methods of cheating at wagers, or even robbing people. Sophistry has long been associated with subterfuge, propaganda, and looting.

So, is it immoral for a person to have a dog as "their" mother? What if they own multiple dogs with puppies? How immoral is it to have multiple mothers, and that they are all dogs? :(

Or is this all a lot of data, and semantic descriptors, uselessly applied completely out of context, and therefore contravening a basic, hierarchical rule of language utilization ... i.e., that it be applied to orient to REAL, not just imaginary, nominal or nonexistent scenarios?


Let's take another example.
"Is that YOUR fiat currency?" 'Yes.'
"And in purely nominal, double-entry accounting ... fiat currency creation has to be balanced with an equal entry labeled, purely for form, a 'deficit' or 'debt?' " 'Yes.'
"Then that nominal metric is YOUR real debt!" :)
Just like with Socrates, we're seeing two general classes of responses.
   Intelligent people: '[Get lost.]'
   Naive people unaware of basic banking operations: "Oh my gosh! Our nation is in DEBT!!!' Fear. Panic
Is it only nominally immoral for a population to have a purely semantic 'debt' to itself? What if that population grows AND the transaction rate of each resident increases! Is it immoral to allow increasing use of nominal or fiat measuring units for our growing populace to denominate necessary transactions with - i.e., an increasing volume of fiat currency?

Or is the only functional immorality that of an electorate leaving itself unaware of basic operations, unable to discriminate sophistry from functional semantics, and flat out unaware of actual context?

Now, please watch this video and the 2nd link, to see how it is promoted. Then please comment below.

"Christian" Debate About the Morality of Nominal Sophistry

Government Debt is 'Idolatry,' Hurts the Poor, Future Generations, Christian Panelists Argue

The immediate issue here is confusion over the dual roles of any currency system, and conflating two separate needs.

1) denominating any and all, unpredictably needed transactions, WHENEVER they need to be denominated (tempo is paramount for group agility)

2) short term vs long term stable store of value. (Value is ultimately dictated by context, not by denominating units.)

The deeper issue is basic need to maintain situational awareness, as the threshold for survival of a functioning democracy.

Since tempo is critically important, we really need to address our electorate's situational awareness, ASAP - before we're robbed again, or confused and divided enough to be conquered? What else could be more important for National Security?



7 comments:

Matt Franko said...

"He encouraged people and government "to push solutions out to more local levels where people who are relationally connected to the poor can lead the way."

Jay Richards, distinguished fellow at the Institute for Faith, Work and Economics, declared that "essentially, what we're dealing with on the national debt is an externality where the benefit is in the present and the cost is for someone else in the future." Richards insisted that it is always wrong to saddle future generations with debt in order to get a short benefit in the present."

I'd like to see them try to explain how a present transaction to feed children should not be booked because we are borrowing from the same children...

So its like they are advocating to let our current generation of children starve to death because we dont want to borrow from them now even though these children manifestly do not have any "money" to even borrow from them... these are irrational thoughts...


And Roger I would point out that the whole purpose of this meeting they held here was to coordinate among some disparate groups on these issues that they all agree on... so they have meetings like this to coordinate and explore their all the options...

They are manifestly seeking a lot of return on coordination and exploring all their options.

There is NO debate going on here.

You have re-titled the first video "Christian Debate" there is NO debate here... where is the debate??? Who is debating????

They are mostly in agreement and seeking a return on coordination imo.

Now if WE could get in to a meeting like this there WOULD then be debate I'm pretty sure... and we'd probably be asked to leave.

rsp,

Roger Erickson said...

Good point. I've adjusted the title

ps: there's no NET return on this kind of coordination;

this is just coordination among our parasites

Where's our social immune response? Taking too long to kick in?

Where's OUR coordination?

Tom Hickey said...

Politics is interest-driven. A point of focus is needed. The Religious Right has its point of ideological focus and in this worldview, debt = sin. It's dogma; therefore, there is nothing to debate.

Tom Hickey said...

BTW, they feel the same about personal debt. Debt is sinful and there shouldn't be any debt. This means, of course, there should be no money. They are driven by this logic to a commodity medium of exchange like metalism.

googleheim said...

This is entirely anti-semantic

Roger Erickson said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Roger Erickson said...

:)

don't go there, GH. We can't win.

Agile linguistics is a semantic mess. We just have to shape it, rather than opposing it.